yosemite bowline failure

Yosemite Bowline This strong loop knot is a variation of the bowline that has the free end wrapped around one side of the loop and tucked back into the knot, commonly known as a Yosemite finish. The Bowline knot (and its variants) have two advantages over Figure-of-Eight, that is, it is easier to untie, which is handy after the knot is heavily loaded (by falls), and is marginally quicker to tie. However, I do not use it during multi-pitch climbing or in winter, because I did notice its tendency to come loose over an extensive period of time, probably after the knot has been rubbed by something surrounding without me noticing. Reply: This statement is factually incorrect - and represents only the opinion of Masa. However, there is a significant risk for the knot. Basically, a tiny bit of mistying, or even just a bit of wiggle during a course of a day, could cause a serious weakening of the strength of the knot. — Quest for climbing without avoidable risks, Submitted by masa on Wed, 2017-08-02 21:57. Submitted by Mark Gommers (not verified) on Thu, 2018-07-26 03:43, Quote from Masa: As one keeps pulling this turns into a curious form of Prusik type knot around the loaded strand. The proposition tendered by that person could apply to any knot - to single out Scotts locked Bowline is non-sensical. The downside to the Yosemite Bowline is that it is more difficult to visually inspect than the Figure Eight. In addition to potentially being more secure than a standard bowline, the Yosemite variant is also easier to untie after a load. You could argue that harnesses with self-locking buckles are far more foolproof than harnesses with manual style buckles. You'll end up with four strands of rope. etc.) On the rope I was testing with (9mm half rope) this slid at 2.3kN down to the tape loop (two layers 16mm nylon). No responsibility is accepted for incidents arising from the use of this content. ... Where failure could cause property damage, injury, or death, seek professional instruction prior to use. I'd wager the rope will break before it will revert to its unknotted state.,,, Personally, I would still recommend you to tie a stopper knot, as I have witnessed the loosened Yosemite Bowline over a course of a day. Please look over Mark Gommer's comment above on the subject as he a subject expert especially when it comes to knots. Presumably, when you use the word 'Bowline' - you might in fact be referring to #1010 Common Bowline. this pulled the finish back through the hitch. Submitted by KnudeNoggin (not verified) on Thu, 2020-05-07 19:38, Before this runs into another venting verbosity from u-no-hoo, Here is the detailed background, followed by some discussion. A critical problem is that there is no guarantee the condition holds in a course of a long day, and worse, one will forget checking about it, after tying one, on an odd day, sooner or later – it is just a matter of probability…, Submitted by Mark Gommers (not verified) on Thu, 2018-07-26 03:27. A mention should be given to Edwards Bowline. > (In reply to stefanfischer) No, he ties the Bowline initially and pulls it tight, then does the finish. Yosemite Bowline knot is one of the most popular variant of Bowline knots used by climbers, notably for the harness tying-in point. Submitted by masa on Fri, 2018-06-15 21:46. > The 'mistake' in the video, as I understand it, is not supposed to illustrate an error you might make when tying in but rather what could happen if your knot loosens and move around a little, before being fell on. For example, if you want to compare particular off-road 4WD (SUV) vehicle against another vehicle, you need to select another 4WD (SUV). Summary - to gain the benefits of the Yosemite Finish, it must be tied carefully and correctly. How to tie the Yosemite Bowline Knot. > I thought that we agreed that everyone on here and in the video is tying the same knot, topologically speaking, and the only difference is in the setting and dressing? This applies even moreso if one ties a grapevine stopper above the Yosemite finish, which is my standard single pitch sport tie … Bowline ona bight, double dragon, alpine butterfly, figure of eight on the bight. Yosemite Bowline has a follow through of the rope-end via the knot itself. I doubt if Edwards Bowline is widely used in the UK, let alone outside (n.b., the name comes from the Cornish climbing legend, the Edwards). Billy Ridal has had his 'best day' of rock climbing during which he climbed Keen Roof (Font 8B), Fat Lip (Font 8B) and Superman Sit Start (Font 8B+), all of which are on Peak limestone. Feed line back down through the loop ("the rabbit goes back down the hole"). Checking your tie-in knot is a mission critical action because your life depends on it! Form a small overhand loop in the line in your hand. In the first instance, you prefix the word 'the' with 'Bowline' which in fact should be 'a' type of Bowline (not 'the' Bowline). Note that they all are to some extent more awkward to dress (or set) the knot properly, and hence the caution in tying is still essential. > That's the thing about this knot - you thread correctly, yet sometimes it's broken and sometimes not. I am not convinced (a single seemingly non-scientific experiment does not tell much anyway). Try this : with the Yosemite Bowline, let the to-be-further-tucked (out through collar) tail *swing wide* so that it crosses the main line, AND THEN instead of tucking it on out through the collar, bring it back sharply through the main "nipping" loop; in this way, this further-tucked tail binds against the main line, helping to keep it snug, and it of course is wrapping around the tail. Essentially, Double Bowline keeps all the basic principles (and hence cons) of the standard Bowline, but advances some of them. There's no half measures. Should we ban screw-gate carabiners? Scotts locked Bowline is inherently secure and is fit for purpose in climbing applications. I met a climber a few years ago who, when leading a big wall pitch in South Africa back in the 80s, had his lead rope whistle away. Scroll to see Animated Yosemite Bowline Knot below the illustration and tying instructions. However, there are still a considerable number of climbers who prefer to use Bowline knot or its variants. It is stronger, and is even easier to untie after the load, than the standard Bowline. > You can tie the knot as strong as you wish, but: > If the knot is "broken" (or comes apart when tugged) then you haven't threaded it correctly! > The first critical point is that for the knot to collapse is that the loaded strand has to straighten and no longer form a hitch. I have written to you before about this - but you choose to ignore my advice. Basically, a tiny bit of mistying, or even just a bit of wiggle during a course of a day, could cause a … That means the acceptable probability of mistying the harness tying-point is smaller than 1 in 10 millions, or 0.00001%. Your video explaining the failure mode of the Bowline with 'Yosemite finish' is incorrect. This is because there is NO possibility of getting loose by itself.

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